Hi Dear Mr Wolff
Considering the vulnerability, is there any possibility of passing the double for penalty? And will it be justified? In the column hand , on best defense , NS can collect much more than the game bonus in penalty. Grateful if you can opine
Regards
Iain ClimieMarch 9th, 2020 at 3:58 pm
Hi AVRR,
North could be much weaker and could even have a singleton spade, while on a diamond lead (say), DA, D ruff, H to A, H ruff, then West exits with a heart (say) and is getting close to a decent save at worst. A trump lead form North could stop that but nobody will find that very easily.
Regards,
Iain
jim2March 9th, 2020 at 3:59 pm
I sure would not want to be North leading against 1S doubled passed out. The chances of me finding the club lead are not great, since that looks like the least safest lead. Other leads generally seem to yield +200, but there are some ways to let it make! (Imagine starting with the 10H and it holds, and continuing with a heart/diamond.)
A V Ramana RaoMarch 9th, 2020 at 4:30 pm
Hi lain & Jim 2
Just thinking loud regarding the penalty pass . But however West may try, he will not be able to make the contract and also there is a possibility of SOS redouble but EW cannot run anywhere. From South’s point of view, he knows for certain that West cannot have more than 14 to 15 points . The singleton diamond with east which comes as a surprise and perhaps could salvage a trick but even then , West will have problems
Regards
bobbywolffMarch 9th, 2020 at 6:49 pm
Hi AVRR and, of course Iain and Jim2,
Time to come out of my shell and call a f—— shovel a f—— shovel.
Yes, a penalty pass by South could result in a good matchpoint result. With normal play, most
unthinking declarers, while South, when playing 3NT, will carelessly call for a low spade from dummy, before they consider the entire hand.
Thus paying the price of down one for that lazy effort, allowing down 1 doubled at 1 spade to become an above average result for NS, if, they consider, and then pass partner’s TO double.
However, to do so, would, at least to me, be one of the worst partnership baiting bids to make and although successful, would eventually, if not sooner, destroy that bond from developing into a winning one.
Without spending too much time worrying about that possibility, let me just offer for advice, to do so, would forever make North worry about making a TO double on so many other hands which certainly qualify for that action by first, being short in spades (if given a choice) the very opposite to which that South based his choice of passing.
Needless to say, while normally 3NT would normally make for plus 400 or more, considering the number of hcps and spade stops available, plus tricks available, but, of course, careful play is necessary since diamonds broke badly.
IOW the patient lived, but the operation was unsuccessful due to the lack of trust which, no doubt would occur for the future.
However, thanks for bringing up your point, since the above is important to report, at least IMO, so that others, who definitely can see your point, but I hope realize the futility of such an unilateral judgment.
Your suggestion is very helpful in being able to discuss the psychological side of a hoped for sound bridge partnership, perhaps the most important aspect of future success.
Robert LiptonMarch 10th, 2020 at 2:29 am
To expand on Jim2’s point, let’s consider North’s lead in 1S doubled. What do I lead against that contract? Every plain suit looks dangerous. I would consider what South holds, conclude it’s something like five Spades to a high run…. possibly QJT9x, or possibly AJT9x, and an outside Ace, and lead the SK. West wins, cashes DA, ruffs a diamond, heart to the Ace. Down 1 — west is likely eventually endplayed if the opponents defend accurately, or makes if they slip. Assuming, of course, that that north does not lead a red suit.
A club lead does no better. Club to the Ace, trump shift… which looks dangerous but necessary. West rises with the Ace, plays DA, ruffs a diamond, then leads a club. Down one. Or he covers, and eventually takes 4 Spades and 2 Aces.
As for the suggestion that East redouble, were I sitting west, I would rebid 2D confidently — after all, east is promising 10+ points and length in the other suits. Now if south bids NT, I double. If they double 2D, I redouble.
Bad bidding, we are told, makes good cardplay. Not always. Sometimes it just makes happy opponents. I hate happy opponents.
Bob Lipton
bobbywolffMarch 10th, 2020 at 2:07 pm
Hi Bob,
Thanks for your time and effort to make a very reasonable and thorough analysis.
Another interesting take is that when and if both South and West stand for 1 spade doubled as the final contract, the fear mentioned of North being hesitant to lead away from any of his kings all becomes somewhat academic since because of South’s hand, he is prepared for any one of them.
Just another example of Dame Fortune doing her act, having her fun, but in the long run or perhaps even next time, not failing to represent the immutable law of averages, with all three possible leads costing, or almost, a full trick or, at the very least, a loss of tempo.
Practically speaking, the blind opening lead is just another disadvantage to the defense and, at least indirectly, when faced with a close choice, it is usually better to declare rather than to defend, just to avoid it.
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Hi Dear Mr Wolff
Considering the vulnerability, is there any possibility of passing the double for penalty? And will it be justified? In the column hand , on best defense , NS can collect much more than the game bonus in penalty. Grateful if you can opine
Regards
Hi AVRR,
North could be much weaker and could even have a singleton spade, while on a diamond lead (say), DA, D ruff, H to A, H ruff, then West exits with a heart (say) and is getting close to a decent save at worst. A trump lead form North could stop that but nobody will find that very easily.
Regards,
Iain
I sure would not want to be North leading against 1S doubled passed out. The chances of me finding the club lead are not great, since that looks like the least safest lead. Other leads generally seem to yield +200, but there are some ways to let it make! (Imagine starting with the 10H and it holds, and continuing with a heart/diamond.)
Hi lain & Jim 2
Just thinking loud regarding the penalty pass . But however West may try, he will not be able to make the contract and also there is a possibility of SOS redouble but EW cannot run anywhere. From South’s point of view, he knows for certain that West cannot have more than 14 to 15 points . The singleton diamond with east which comes as a surprise and perhaps could salvage a trick but even then , West will have problems
Regards
Hi AVRR and, of course Iain and Jim2,
Time to come out of my shell and call a f—— shovel a f—— shovel.
Yes, a penalty pass by South could result in a good matchpoint result. With normal play, most
unthinking declarers, while South, when playing 3NT, will carelessly call for a low spade from dummy, before they consider the entire hand.
Thus paying the price of down one for that lazy effort, allowing down 1 doubled at 1 spade to become an above average result for NS, if, they consider, and then pass partner’s TO double.
However, to do so, would, at least to me, be one of the worst partnership baiting bids to make and although successful, would eventually, if not sooner, destroy that bond from developing into a winning one.
Without spending too much time worrying about that possibility, let me just offer for advice, to do so, would forever make North worry about making a TO double on so many other hands which certainly qualify for that action by first, being short in spades (if given a choice) the very opposite to which that South based his choice of passing.
Needless to say, while normally 3NT would normally make for plus 400 or more, considering the number of hcps and spade stops available, plus tricks available, but, of course, careful play is necessary since diamonds broke badly.
IOW the patient lived, but the operation was unsuccessful due to the lack of trust which, no doubt would occur for the future.
However, thanks for bringing up your point, since the above is important to report, at least IMO, so that others, who definitely can see your point, but I hope realize the futility of such an unilateral judgment.
Your suggestion is very helpful in being able to discuss the psychological side of a hoped for sound bridge partnership, perhaps the most important aspect of future success.
To expand on Jim2’s point, let’s consider North’s lead in 1S doubled. What do I lead against that contract? Every plain suit looks dangerous. I would consider what South holds, conclude it’s something like five Spades to a high run…. possibly QJT9x, or possibly AJT9x, and an outside Ace, and lead the SK. West wins, cashes DA, ruffs a diamond, heart to the Ace. Down 1 — west is likely eventually endplayed if the opponents defend accurately, or makes if they slip. Assuming, of course, that that north does not lead a red suit.
A club lead does no better. Club to the Ace, trump shift… which looks dangerous but necessary. West rises with the Ace, plays DA, ruffs a diamond, then leads a club. Down one. Or he covers, and eventually takes 4 Spades and 2 Aces.
As for the suggestion that East redouble, were I sitting west, I would rebid 2D confidently — after all, east is promising 10+ points and length in the other suits. Now if south bids NT, I double. If they double 2D, I redouble.
Bad bidding, we are told, makes good cardplay. Not always. Sometimes it just makes happy opponents. I hate happy opponents.
Bob Lipton
Hi Bob,
Thanks for your time and effort to make a very reasonable and thorough analysis.
Another interesting take is that when and if both South and West stand for 1 spade doubled as the final contract, the fear mentioned of North being hesitant to lead away from any of his kings all becomes somewhat academic since because of South’s hand, he is prepared for any one of them.
Just another example of Dame Fortune doing her act, having her fun, but in the long run or perhaps even next time, not failing to represent the immutable law of averages, with all three possible leads costing, or almost, a full trick or, at the very least, a loss of tempo.
Practically speaking, the blind opening lead is just another disadvantage to the defense and, at least indirectly, when faced with a close choice, it is usually better to declare rather than to defend, just to avoid it.
Finally yes, fie on happy opponents!