I think I might be missing something in your answer to Proper Etiquette. If a claim is complicated enough to require a write-up, wouldn’t it be faster just to play it out, at least until it is crystal clear? I may be missing something, but I am not sure I see the point of it.
bobbywolffMarch 6th, 2022 at 11:32 pm
Hi Jeff S,
You are not really missing anything, but rather in an online game, the rules can be a little less formal, allowing the claimer some leeway in his description.
However, and no doubt, if the claim either is invalid or becomes so by his own description, his rights are likely to diminish so that his result will not be what he intended.
IOW, no one should be so formal that he wants something for nothing, although if he does not announce officially something relevant (either drawing trumps or not) he can be ruled against, except if it is so obvious that he would have done the right thing (for his partnership) then his side should win.
Of course, the above would not suit everyone’s taste and some players would like to gain through a downright petty circumstance, but in online bridge the players themselves will know better what to do, giving them the right to restore equity, without having to give away the farm (terrible result) when nothing that bad was done including the declarer not doing what he was almost sure to do, if left to his own choice.
Yes, the above will certainly please the players who are NOT looking for a gain to which they do not deserve such as the declarer not drawing trump when it is obvious to do so. (even if the declarer does not so state, but would certainly do so, if asked).
clarksburgMarch 6th, 2022 at 11:51 pm
re gain through “downright petty circumstance”:
Some players at our club’s online games will reject ANY and ALL claims no matter how well explained order of play and totally obvious valid claim . I can only assume they hope that in playing out Declarer may make a slip of the finger or something.
To me this is absolutely disgusting!!
bobbywolffMarch 6th, 2022 at 11:54 pm
Hi again Jeff S,
In case my answer appears contradictory to some, allow me to be clear:
Suppose a declarer at a middle trick claimed without announcing he would draw trump (let us assume spades are trump), and, at trick seven he held s. AK, h. AK, d. A. c. A then if only one or two spades remain at large he could get away with a claim by showing his hand but if three or more spades remained, then regardless of their distribution he would be forced to concede a trick if he did not state his line of play. IOW, as far as he knew the spades could be 3-0, but if they were not then the claim should (at least as far as I am concerned not be valid and he should lose another trick, assuming the declarer did not announce the drawing of trump). However if the spades were not 3-0 then the claimer would be protected.
Of course, to not announce a normal line of play takes a chance on a different ruling and only an emphasis in equity favors my thought.
However, perhaps the law is not written in such a loose way, but in my opinion it should be.
bobbywolffMarch 7th, 2022 at 12:04 am
Hi again and again Jeff S,
If the declarer does not state his drawing of the trump but, there was no legitimate way to lose a trick by whichever way he played the hand, even if one opponent could hold all three spades out, but did not, then, and, of course, no trick should be lost.
Naturally the above could be taken for granted, but if not, I just wanted it to be so stated.
Quote the Raven, “NEVERMORE”
bobbywolffMarch 7th, 2022 at 12:07 am
Hi Clarksburg,
My text echoes your thought.
However the Raven spoke too soon.
Iain ClimieMarch 7th, 2022 at 2:21 pm
HI Bobby,
Monday appears to have struck again !
Iain
bobbywolffMarch 7th, 2022 at 3:12 pm
Hi Iain,
Yes, and it appears that all Judy & I can do, therefore all others, is wait it out
Many apologies.
bobbywolffMarch 8th, 2022 at 3:23 pm
Hi Everyone,
Judy & and I are trying to do everything we can to get hold of Lisa Marie and find out what is the problem with the delay of putting up this week’s hands.
So sorry for the inconvenience and hope that it is not worse than that.
bobbywolffMarch 8th, 2022 at 4:05 pm
To all,
All thanks need to go to both Judy & Lisa Marie!!!!
Hope the Monday & Tuesday hands are worth the wait,
Subscribe to our feed
Bridge-related
Hi Bobby,
I think I might be missing something in your answer to Proper Etiquette. If a claim is complicated enough to require a write-up, wouldn’t it be faster just to play it out, at least until it is crystal clear? I may be missing something, but I am not sure I see the point of it.
Hi Jeff S,
You are not really missing anything, but rather in an online game, the rules can be a little less formal, allowing the claimer some leeway in his description.
However, and no doubt, if the claim either is invalid or becomes so by his own description, his rights are likely to diminish so that his result will not be what he intended.
IOW, no one should be so formal that he wants something for nothing, although if he does not announce officially something relevant (either drawing trumps or not) he can be ruled against, except if it is so obvious that he would have done the right thing (for his partnership) then his side should win.
Of course, the above would not suit everyone’s taste and some players would like to gain through a downright petty circumstance, but in online bridge the players themselves will know better what to do, giving them the right to restore equity, without having to give away the farm (terrible result) when nothing that bad was done including the declarer not doing what he was almost sure to do, if left to his own choice.
Yes, the above will certainly please the players who are NOT looking for a gain to which they do not deserve such as the declarer not drawing trump when it is obvious to do so. (even if the declarer does not so state, but would certainly do so, if asked).
re gain through “downright petty circumstance”:
Some players at our club’s online games will reject ANY and ALL claims no matter how well explained order of play and totally obvious valid claim . I can only assume they hope that in playing out Declarer may make a slip of the finger or something.
To me this is absolutely disgusting!!
Hi again Jeff S,
In case my answer appears contradictory to some, allow me to be clear:
Suppose a declarer at a middle trick claimed without announcing he would draw trump (let us assume spades are trump), and, at trick seven he held s. AK, h. AK, d. A. c. A then if only one or two spades remain at large he could get away with a claim by showing his hand but if three or more spades remained, then regardless of their distribution he would be forced to concede a trick if he did not state his line of play. IOW, as far as he knew the spades could be 3-0, but if they were not then the claim should (at least as far as I am concerned not be valid and he should lose another trick, assuming the declarer did not announce the drawing of trump). However if the spades were not 3-0 then the claimer would be protected.
Of course, to not announce a normal line of play takes a chance on a different ruling and only an emphasis in equity favors my thought.
However, perhaps the law is not written in such a loose way, but in my opinion it should be.
Hi again and again Jeff S,
If the declarer does not state his drawing of the trump but, there was no legitimate way to lose a trick by whichever way he played the hand, even if one opponent could hold all three spades out, but did not, then, and, of course, no trick should be lost.
Naturally the above could be taken for granted, but if not, I just wanted it to be so stated.
Quote the Raven, “NEVERMORE”
Hi Clarksburg,
My text echoes your thought.
However the Raven spoke too soon.
HI Bobby,
Monday appears to have struck again !
Iain
Hi Iain,
Yes, and it appears that all Judy & I can do, therefore all others, is wait it out
Many apologies.
Hi Everyone,
Judy & and I are trying to do everything we can to get hold of Lisa Marie and find out what is the problem with the delay of putting up this week’s hands.
So sorry for the inconvenience and hope that it is not worse than that.
To all,
All thanks need to go to both Judy & Lisa Marie!!!!
Hope the Monday & Tuesday hands are worth the wait,